Ogbeh, successful this exclusive interrogation with Sunday Sun successful Abuja, said that organization policies specified arsenic involvement rates to farmers, the lack of subsidy for immoderate cultivation products oregon commodities similar what obtains successful different climes, coupled with different limitations associated with small-scale farming strategy successful the state similar non-availability of mechanised implements and fertilizers......See Full Story>>.....See Full Story>>
He besides blamed it connected deficiency of attraction to agriculture some astatine the authorities and section authorities levels, saying that each of them added up are liable for the hunger successful the country.
Ogbeh, an agric adept who has had the privilege of occupying delicate positions successful authorities and astatine enactment level, peculiarly arsenic Minister of Communications during the Shehu Shagari administration, National Chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) during the medication of erstwhile President Olusegun Obasanjo and recently, Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development successful the Muhammadu Buhari administration, concluded that the agric assemblage is successful superior danger.
Among different issues, Ogbeh took a look astatine the 25 years of unbroken ideology successful the country, assessing the assorted administrations wrong the play and averred that governmental enactment medication successful Nigeria is simply a implicit disaster.
Sir, you are a husbandman and today, astir Nigerians are hungry, including farmers. Why can’t our farmers provender the federation again? What is going on?
First of all, determination are galore issues. I mean, the farmers successful Nigeria are 90 per cent tiny scale, precise fewer of them tin negociate 1 hectare of land. A hectare is simply a shot field. They cannot. They can’t spend to rent a tractor. If they do, the outgo is excessively high, truthful it has to beryllium the hoe and cutlass. And with the hoe and cutlass, determination is conscionable truthful overmuch you tin do. They can’t header with weeds; a container of fertilizer contiguous has gone mode beyond their capacity. They person precise small entree to amended seeds and successful those days erstwhile we grew up, we followed our fathers to the farms and we supported them successful immoderate small ways. They showed you however to weed. Now, astir of the young boys are chiefly successful schoolhouse and tin lone beryllium disposable during the holidays. So, you find the antheral unsocial oregon helium and his wife. Their output tin lone beryllium truthful much. Today, adjacent though Nigeria has good implicit 970,000 hectares of land, it is conscionable astir a cardinal hectares. Less than 4 per cent is nether cultivation. People don’t cognize this. When you travel, look near and close connected either broadside of the roadworthy oregon erstwhile you are flying and you are astir to land, look down. It is thing but wilderness. So, we are truly not planting enough, with each the different issues I person raised – ungraded – adjacent ungraded management, I person a small kit here. If you are going to works thing anywhere, bash a ungraded test. If you are increasing seeds, if you are growing…, isolated from the information that the farmers are fewer and ageing, and that their capableness to cultivate is reducing, determination are different issues similar I raised – fertilizer, chemicals and truthful on, ungraded type. You don’t conscionable works thing anywhere. If you are going to turn thing successful Southern Imo and Abia, you person to bash your ungraded trial due to the fact that the ungraded is highly acidic. So, you person to prime a peculiar benignant of fertilizer and bash immoderate liming of the ungraded earlier you use fertilizer. Lime mops up the acerb and you volition get a bully yield. The yields are reducing, the mean property of a husbandman is rising, and the enactment by household has wholly disappeared. Like I said, those days erstwhile we were younger, we helped weed; your begetter showed you what to do, not now. So, accumulation is dropping. Then, determination is colonisation growth. The fig I person now, I don’t cognize however close it is, is that 20,000 children are calved regular successful Nigeria now. That is 6,000,000 a month. Six cardinal babies a month. If that fig is accurate, it is simply a scary one, particularly successful definite parts of the state wherever your information defender tells you helium inactive wants to wed 4 wives and each month, you are helping him with schoolhouse fees, and nutrient and truthful on, but helium says his religion says helium tin wed 4 wives. Religion didn’t accidental helium indispensable wed four, but helium wants to wed 4 wives, truthful helium produces these kids and decidedly can’t look aft them and leaves the load connected their mothers and their mothers, galore of them, galore states now, are connected Tramadol nether stress. So, this is it.
How bash we remedy this situation?
Before we spell into that, the information is that, instrumentality the yam, for instance. I americium moving connected my memo. In 1980, I was Deputy Speaker of the House of Assembly successful Benue. I retrieve going to the politician 1 time to accidental to him, we are going to person problems with yams. He said, why? I said due to the fact that erstwhile UPE, the Universal Primary Education, each the young kids person gone to school. The steadfast young men betwixt 14 and 18 who bash the yam heaps for america successful Benue, particularly the Tiv people, they are large yam farmers, they are nary longer there. And erstwhile they travel backmost from superior school, they are present educated, they are not going to instrumentality the hoe and cutlass to assistance you. So, I told him, successful different 10, 15 years, we volition beryllium successful trouble. And helium asked me, what bash we do? I said let’s get an engineering steadfast that tin plan a plough to marque the yam heap. Well, I near Benue successful 1982 to Lagos arsenic curate of communications, past determination was a coup of 1983 and each that scattered. Luckily now, the National Centre for Agric Mechanization successful Ilorin is producing ploughs for making yam heaps. That came into cognition portion I was curate of agric. But again, not galore states person pitied up to hook it to the tractor and let the husbandman successful 1 time to bash 2,000 heaps with this machine. So, mechanization is not here; enactment for agric recognition is astir zero. No slope volition lend wealth to a farmer, small-scale husbandman now. He can’t wage back.
What is the mode out?
Well, idiosyncratic has to marque up his mind. I asked this question successful Kigali once. Former President Obasanjo was there, Kagame was there, Tony Blair, erstwhile British premier minister, was determination and I was asked, connected behalf of each the ministers of Africa, to bash the resolution. I did it and I said each of you, basal astir maine and fto maine marque it. But I asked a fewer questions. I said Mr Tony Blair, what is the involvement complaint successful Britain, mostly connected agriculture? He said 3 per cent. I asked the Ghanaians, they said 18 per cent. This besides affects economical maturation generally. We slam 30 per cent connected borrowing rate. CBN (Central Bank of Nigeria) has raised involvement rate, determination is nary priority. In the 60s, 70s erstwhile I was successful the university, agric loans were 2 per cent, 3 per cent. Every state does that. You spell to the U.S., inquire them however overmuch they lend wealth to farmers? Go to Europe, alright, each cattle connected a ranch successful Europe gets a subsidy of astir six euros a time to support them there, good fed, producing milk. So, they don’t export, they don’t import milk. Holland, a state of 17 cardinal people, is simply a size of Benue State. Holland earns 100 cardinal euros per annum from cultivation export – flours, milk, nutrient and truthful on. In each these countries, they don’t propulsion these things to the wools successful the banks and accidental oh, slope rates person gone. There are discriminatory rates. So, what they archer america present astir subsidies to beryllium removed wholly from everything is falsehood. When I asked my colleagues there, you are doing 18 per cent, you are doing 16, you are doing this happening there, and we bash nine. And my Ghanaian colleagues said eh, but nine, who is sponsoring it? I said the CBN has to sponsor the difference, otherwise, we can’t feed. So, these are cardinal issues that impact agric and cipher talks astir them anymore. Finally, that mediocre husbandman who does the yams, beans, maize, cassava and truthful connected and truthful forth, tin ne’er participate a slope gathering and inquire for money. The Bank of Agriculture successful Nigeria is not doing well. When I was minister, I sent a squad from the Bank of Agric to China to transcript the exemplary successful China. And successful China, the Bank of Agric is owned 99 per cent by farmers. Every husbandman is simply a shareholder. So, they lend to themselves astatine beneath 5 per cent. China feeds 1.2 cardinal people. Here, it is involvement rates, beryllium deregulated, banks person done this, they person raised involvement rates to curb inflation. They curb inflation, but they don’t summation nutrient production. So, this is the complexity.
There was a clip the authorities declared nutrient insecurity successful the country. What and what is the authorities expected to do?
First of all, erstwhile this authorities came, I wrote a memo and sent to them that we should revive the aged DFFRI (the defunct Directorate of Food, Roads and Rural Infrastructure during the General Ibrahim Badamasi Babangida (IBB) subject administration) and this time, person a beardown concern betwixt federal, authorities and section governments because, what is Nigeria? It is the sum full of 774 section governments. But wherefore is governance and everything focused connected the Federal Government? In galore of the states, the commissioner of agric can’t adjacent spot the politician to speech to him astir fertilizer, tractors, no.
Why is it so?
Oh! The politician is excessively busy. Very fewer commissioners tin get up and accidental thing astir a peculiar contented successful council. So, determination is precise small attraction astatine the level of authorities and section governments, precise little! On the different hand, successful states similar Kano, the aged Kano earlier Jigawa was taken away, Audu Bako, subject politician then, built 23 dams. In Oyo State, they did 22 dams. They are the 2 states with the largest fig of dams successful the country. How often person you heard of kidnapping successful Kano oregon banditry and Jigawa? They are excessively busy. If you spell to Kano today, determination is this programme we did of large atom mill. Kano has 30 elephantine atom mills. If you are driving to Kano, connected the left, you crook near to a municipality called Kura. There are implicit a 1000 tiny standard atom mills, each with distoners. Almost the samething is happening successful Jigawa. So, you tin present spot wherever keeping the agrarian radical engaged construe to bid and stability. This is it. Now, not capable attraction is paid and successful anyway, the section governments beryllium lone successful names. They bash nothing. So, the agric assemblage is successful superior information and galore of the states wage nary attraction whatsoever to agriculture. And arsenic for the section governments, they don’t exist. When I was successful superior school, we utilized to bash abrogation jobs connected the Native Authority Farms.
From what we person seen, the rains are present and earlier now, farmers should beryllium precise happy. But what we are seeing present is the benignant of rainfall that washes distant the farm. How are the farmers feeling amidst respective challenges confronting them?
They are each feeling precise unhappy, they can’t cope, they can’t make canals of their own, and they can’t artifact lines and truthful on. And the state is acold excessively ample for the Federal Government unsocial to regulate. So, the contented is the authorities governors. How overmuch attraction tin they wage to agric?
In your state, Benue, erstwhile Governor Ortom banned unfastened grazing and the argumentation was highly contentious. What is the presumption present and however has it successful anyhow helped the state?
Well, it should person helped the state, astatine least, support the tiny farmers against herders who travel and devour up their crops. But I person been proceeding a batch of statement connected this thing. The contented I privation to amusement you present is an statement which Nigeria entered into with ECOWAS countries successful 1998, signed by Abdulsalami (former Military Head of State, General Abdulsalami Abubakar). It permits cattle from each implicit West Africa to travel present and graze. And successful theory, cattle from Nigeria tin besides spell determination and graze, but successful reality, no. One night, erstwhile I was curate here, Governor Masari (immediate past politician of Katsina State) called maine astatine 1:00a.m. He said, Honourable minister, I person a problem. What problem? He said 3,000 cows person conscionable arrived from Mali successful 1 night. Yes, 3,000. I volition people the country retired (referring to a papers signed by erstwhile Head of State, General Abdulsalami Abubakar connected October 31, 1998, during the 20st Conference of Heads of States titled ‘Decision A/DEC.5/10/98 Relating to the Regulations connected Transhuman Between ECOWAS Member States) truthful that you volition work it and spot where…, and I person sent a transcript to Mr President, I don’t cognize if helium received it. This statement has to beryllium revoked. Let each state graze their cattle successful their territory. They tin bargain improved atom from Europe, irrigate and turn the grass. We tin bash the same. The occupation we look contiguous is not from indigenous Fulanis. They never, ne’er invaded farms. In those days, if they did, and determination was a problem, they paid compensation. The main called and they paid. These ones arriving, 3,000, 5,000 astatine once, person nary hint wherever to spell oregon not. Any workplace they enter, they graze. If you talk, they shoot, if determination is simply a woman, they rape her. This is the occupation and I privation you to rise this statement with the National Assembly. Get clasp of Senator Abaribe (Senator Enyinnaya Abaribe is simply a erstwhile Minority Leader successful the Senate and legislator representing Abia South). I volition springiness you a transcript to springiness him. Tell him to work it. This statement has to beryllium revoked. ECOWAS countries indispensable larn to make their grazing reserve, support their cattle wrong their territory due to the fact that arsenic the cows roam, they besides dispersed 2 diseases – TB, Bovine TB, Tuberculosis and Anthrax. So, this statement is the problem.
Kidnapping and banditry besides hap successful Benue State. What is the origin and however tin they beryllium stamped out?
It is conscionable that atrocious habits spread. Young men deliberation if they tin kidnap, they volition marque immoderate wealth and go affluent and bargain bully cars and truthful on. But determination are different horrible habits going connected – fetishism, each sorts of voodoo priests telling them if you tin rape your parent oregon bash immoderate rubbish, you go rich. All those are spreading each implicit now. It is not conscionable here. In immoderate states, I heard young Muslim boys volition instrumentality women to the Mosque and rape them. So, we person a horrible degeneration of morality and summation successful poverty, truthful we are losing power arsenic a society.
Are you impressed with the authorities of Reverend Father Alia, 1 twelvemonth aft compared to Ortom’s regime?
He is doing his best. I guess, astatine least, they said helium is paying the salaries regularly and the pensions. But my interest for galore states is this – a politician should not deliberation helium is precise palmy if helium is not besides promoting concern growth. You understand? Industries person to exist. They whitethorn beryllium agro industries, they whitethorn beryllium successful the mining sector, they whitethorn beryllium different manufacturing and the politician has to find funds, subsidise the involvement rates and bid individuals. Not everybody is an industrialist. Some of the radical successful the North-central wherever I travel from did grooming by Southerners connected however to negociate machinery, quality beings and negociate money. You understand? Yes. When you spell circular immoderate states, determination is not 1 mill working. Not one!
Politicians are opening to hole for elections adjacent erstwhile the existent medication has not gone far. What is your enactment doing due to the fact that a bully fig of Nigerians are not happy? Don’t you deliberation what happened to your erstwhile party, the PDP, 9 years agone whitethorn repetition itself again successful 2027?
The calamity of our nine contiguous is that the lone viable manufacture is politics. So, what bash you expect them…? Everybody is expecting to hop into 1 office, get an authoritative car and person immoderate money. But that can’t prolong a nation.
But arsenic a Nigerian, however bash you consciousness astir the Tinubu administration? Are things good with you arsenic a person? Are you blessed with the administration?
I sympathise with him. But I americium besides saying this, successful 1982, I was curate of communications. The unit connected america past was to devalue the naira. Shagari’s 2 economical advisers, Prof Edozien, helium is precocious present and Prof Odama, from Kogi, helium is inactive alive, they warned Shagari that if helium did it, they would resign and leave. Chief Awolowo warned america besides that this was a trap and erstwhile we stepped into it, we volition ne’er get out. Well, the coup of 1983 came and we fell. Buhari besides resisted them. Ronald Reagan sent Buhari’s classmate, 1 General Waters from the War College successful Philadelphia. They had met, Buhari and him, to transportation Buhari to devalue the naira. Buhari refused. Somehow, they got clasp of this state nether the IBB authorities and then, we had Chu Okongwu, Idika Kalu who were the proponents and Olu Falae (former Secretary to the Government of the Federation). They were the ones who gave the spell up and we started devaluing the currency. And I predicted then, I was successful Hong Kong erstwhile this happening started. I said 1 day, it volition beryllium N300 to 1 dollar. One of my friends said no, it is not possible; N1,600 now! Right? So, this is the problem. They propulsion sometimes from advisers and we are not the lone ones. Prof Krugman, Professor of Economics astatine Harvard and Nobel Prize Winner then, warned against Structural Adjustment Programme. Prof Jeffery Sachs of Colombia University, Adviser to the United Nations connected Economic Matters, warned america not to interaction it. We didn’t listen. Everywhere these radical spell pushing this theory, they person ever brought disaster. It is happening successful South America now. So, I person ever opposed it due to the fact that my question was, what was Nigeria producing that was excessively costly isolated from lipid which was priced successful dollars and the quantities were controlled worldwide? So, what was our hurry successful devaluation? And the consequences are here.
Many radical person criticised the removal of substance subsidy, blaming it arsenic the large origin of the galore problems Nigerians are facing currently. How bash you respond to that?
I don’t deliberation determination was capable survey of the impact. I don’t deliberation determination was capable survey of what interaction it would make. But the propulsion had ever been there, region subsidy, region subsidy. Remove subsidy and rise other gross and usage the gross to make the state right? Okay, however overmuch improvement is taking spot successful states and section governments? Every blasted is enactment connected the president present for everything. Who is questioning governors successful their states and what immoderate of them bash oregon bash not bash with section governments’ funds? So, if the other gross is expected to marque beingness happier for us, it has not, therefore, it has been a antagonistic policy. A bully idea, but fto maine besides adhd similar Obasanjo said astir 2 weeks ago, these countries that speech astir removal of subsidy, they person settled definite problems – underground railways, boats, trains, buses which supply inexpensive transport. They ne’er rise those prices nary substance what happens. So, they tin shield the communal man. We person thing of the benignant here. Their nutrient accumulation is precocious and heavy subsidised by government. Here, we accidental no, don’t subsidise. I mean, you beryllium down sometimes and you perceive the U.S. Government has conscionable fixed 50 cardinal to groundnut farmers successful Georgia oregon wheat farmers successful Maine and truthful on. But here, they archer you don’t bash this, don’t bash that. The fare of don’ts is the problem. So, now, the president meant well, helium listened to them; evidently they were impressed that they had taken a pugnacious decision, but the interaction is frightening.
Looking astatine 25 years of unbroken ideology successful Nigeria wherever you person been PDP National Chairman and later, you became Agric Minister, however would you entree the play truthful far?
First of all, enactment absorption is inactive successful terrible deficient. After elections, parties go hopelessly irrelevant. And I support giving the illustration of the ANC successful South Africa. It was founded successful 1912, the oldest governmental enactment successful Africa. They person enactment conferences truthful often. They conscionable expelled Zuma successful ANC for misconduct. The enactment has nary much control, the enactment has nary views, the enactment says nothing, and everybody is crawling earlier governors and presidents for contracts and appointments. So, enactment medication successful Nigeria is simply a implicit disaster. Everybody is kneeling and crawling earlier the president. I fell retired with Obasanjo due to the fact that determination were definite things I said I couldn’t tolerate arsenic chairman. But the parties don’t relation aft elections.
Since 1999, we person had the Obasanjo’s administration; we had Yar’Adua, Jonathan, Buhari and now, President Tinubu. How bash you measure them individually?
Well, I don’t similar giving them marks. Obasanjo was a precise intelligent man, helium is, sometimes, afloat of mischief. I said truthful once, helium said I was cheeky. But that is the truth. He dabbles successful mischief conscionable for fun. And so, Obasanjo, similar I said, we sat down and decided nary Northerner should contention the predetermination successful 1999. That was wherefore astatine the Jos convention, determination was nary Northerner.
How astir Yar’Adua?
Yar’Adua was a quiescent guy, his wellness wasn’t excessively good, but a bully man, straightforward, honorable fellow.
And Jonathan?
Jonathan, a precise bully person, but not sufficiently experienced arsenic astatine that time. So, each of them has had his own, but the cardinal illness present is the economy.
Sir, however astir Buhari and Tinubu?
Buhari brought immoderate grade of stability; helium had the assurance of a bully portion of the acold North and arsenic a calm-headed idiosyncratic who could bring subject into the system. It (the Buhari administration) whitethorn not person succeeded wholly due to the fact that determination were fewer almighty individuals successful the strategy who really stole the powerfulness from him. I don’t deliberation helium was aware.
Buhari’s authorities was seen mostly arsenic 1 that held precocious hopes for Nigerians successful 2015, but astatine the extremity of his administration, Nigerians were disappointed. Where did Buhari get it wrong?
Buhari is not a benignant of activist, of a benignant Nigerians would privation to see; a straightforward person, highly disciplined himself, who showed nary greed for wealth and powerfulness arsenic an individual. Well, it would look from what I saw wrong then, determination were fewer individuals, immoderate of them not live now, who stole the powerfulness that helium refused to drawback and abused it. And immoderate of them were precise closed to him.
In that case, helium should beryllium held liable for allowing them?
Well, determination is vicarious liability. I mean, if you are president, yes. I mean, if things spell wrong, you instrumentality the blasted first.
You near Tinubu out. You haven’t said thing astir him due to the fact that helium is your friend…?
He is my friend. Tinubu and I person been friends for astir 20 years. He came successful with the courageousness to accidental look, I volition bash what is expected of me, it whitethorn outgo a lot, but I volition bash it. So, successful presumption of courage, helium did. The happening I interest astir is that possibly they should person calculated the consequences of the actions they were going to take. Tinubu is simply a beardown man.
Do you deliberation Tinubu tin instrumentality Nigeria retired of the woods?
He’s taking the steps dilatory now. Like the Dangote issue, I americium gladsome helium enactment his ft down due to the fact that determination are radical wrong the strategy here. And this is what I privation to say: it is ever easier to blasted the governmental leaders. Some of the astir unsafe men successful this state and a fewer women are successful the bureaucracy. They are buried heavy successful there, cipher sees them, but they bash unspeakable harm to the economy. You are proceeding of a N109 cardinal for a alleged Accountant General and you perceive each sorts of figures, you perceive immoderate mischief successful NNPC due to the fact that they privation to marque definite that the system, the petroleum manufacture doesn’t work. There are galore of them. And the worst, Nigerians’ attraction ne’er focuses connected them. So, it is astir President Tinubu himself watching retired for these people. He whitethorn beryllium dealing with a batch of luck hunters successful the strategy without knowing yet until they harm him.